futurePRIMITIVE

Geoffrey…less is more is my speciality. Here’s one for you:

fewer resources = more resourcefulness

or to follow the less is more formulation:

less money = more imagination

Thanks for these pioneer thought. Peter’s reply got me thinking around less is more – starting with less of me, more of Jesus.

Keep it lean and mean.

Geoffrey.

how about this one:

less management = more creativity

How about this one:

less talk = more walk

I am really interested in how we can break through all the institutionalised rules and regulations which have gradually taken over from the real meaning of church. All the robes and hierarchy, all the pomp, all the ‘us and them’. If we truly humble ourselves and lose all the trappings of ‘the Church’, i.e. become less heavily structured and cluttered, we will have more chance of living the life of love that Jesus did.

Just as a Bauhaus chair or Frank Lloyd-Wright building have simple clean uncluttered lines, that subtle sophistication, so if we refine and simplify our approach to ‘doing church’ (the LESS), we might experience new life for the Kingdom (the MORE). LESS can be much, much MORE.

And one for the enviromentalists:

Use LESS – Recycle MORE

Forgive me, guys, but until we release our grasp on all our material possessions, all our credit cards, all our health insurance, our passports, all our status of leadership with the authority and power it provides us, our families, our access to learning, access to reading, access to the internet, ability to do and go where we want, and understand how it feels to really live without the trappings – to live without FREEDOM….. I don’t think we’ve earned a place to really speculate.

Alex, less management? Yes! Transformational management is an oxymoron. Management is static, corrosive, self imploding, decaying… all of these things… TO ME! To have a chance at self transformation and influencing through leadership means a willingness to rish and sacrifice all – because there will be a huge price to pay.

Creativity, but of course! It’s the only way to move forward. Thing is, not everyone CAN move forward, or understand why they must move forward, or will move forward given the opportunity. And why should they think we have the answer? We’re all managing our own little microcosms.

Geoffrey… less talk, more walk? Absolutely, but I observe a whole lot of talking and talking and talking and talking.

Pete, FLW -” Form follows function.” As I commented on your blog discussion, Frank Lloyd Wright did not tear apart the old. He started with something NEW and moved through seasons of change in his life and designing. I feel the necessity to include that his designs and construction COST a big price to the designer and purchaser.

Just a little story that came to mind… growing up in northern California I remember traveling through Marin County. The Marin County hills were very much like the East Bay Hills of my home. One could drive for miles through the “hills” of the area and then come upon the breathtaking structure of the Marin County Civic Center as it extended out of but merged with the hills. Some years later, as an architecture student at UC Berkely, I watched as the urban crawl cluttered and obscured that discovery. yes, it’s still grand, but… it sits in clutter. Perhaps that’s a good metaphor for God’s church sitting amongst the clutter of people.

I’ve digressed considerably. Christ paid a price. Are we willing to?

Sally, I never suggested that we should tear apart the old! What we should do is tear apart those things which we have built ‘in God’s name’, but not of God. The things we have built in our own strength. We get back to the old – the oldest in fact – what Jesus taught us – back to basics – the LESS.

As you say Frank Lloyd Wright did something new but he started it from the basics. It did cost him and his customers, as it will cost us and those who we reach with our work for God if we are really doing it the way Jesus teaches us. But by our sacrifice not only do we gain the MORE, but so also does the Kingdom.

God’s church does sit amongs the clutter. It all too often thinks itself grand and better than the ‘clutter’around it, and God’s natural beauty is hidden. Not until the church humbles itself and reaches out into the ‘clutter’, will its God’s beauty pervade all.

I think we are in agreement, Pete.

Forgive me, I didn’t mean to imply you are saying to tear apart the old. My point was more of a general observation of the widening chasm between the “conventional” church and emerging movements. This is a polarization that is being over simplified by words and implications without enough attention to semantics. This is particularly troublesome as we attempt to communicate God’s Truth in an ever compounding multi/interactive cultural society and global community.

There are many who DO consider the language and movements of the emerging church to be confrontational, rebellious, and destructive(and, btw, just how does one simply define the emerging church anyway? We cannot, which means we must communicate what we mean within the discussion and that takes up time…. ah,THAT element of communication!). At the very minimum the language can be interpreted as critical and judgmental. And it goes both ways, actually all ways as this is an everchanging, dynamic process. But it does remind me of the bickering we find between the protestant and catholic church.

And another note, you and I are fairly close in chronological age thereby influencing our categories and persepectives in a smiliar way, however, we come from different cultures. And I think our genders compound our interpretation of the church’s responsibility.

And I agree that humility is key. When we speak of the “church” in any form, might we not first look in the mirror and acknowledge that we are the church? Dissatisfaction and discomfort is a very good condition to effectively steer toward movement -whichcan gain momentum. But let’s make sure we’re not just moving because we’re dissatisfied. With humility let the whole church – individually and collectively ask themself about the root of dissatisfaction and change from within first.

Three years ago it was recommended that I “concede the center.” That become an effective tool in my own efforts as I effectively rechanneled my strengths. But in the process I learned – and which now is my reason for ministry – that living on the fringes is where the apostles, evangelists, disciples and ……Jesus lived. And that part of conceding the center and moving to the fringes means allowing the former church model to be…. not criticizing, trying to change it, manipulating it and certainly not being pejorative about it publically! God loves HIS church more than I do. If that is LESS than the fruit has become much MORE. And we are in agreement.

Antother metaphor….Fire is a good thing. It creates light, heat, transforms and moves energy. It also burns the structure of the former and provides ash as a medium for future growth. This can be a good thing. But we must understand that fire for the sake of fire can leave us without heat and without anything to grow from… if we’re willing to risk that, great, but understand the responsibility when we do it. We are not victims of the church.

I do so enjoy an honest conversation. Again, please understand that I my attitude is one of humility and passion for the Lord and his church. I do not KNOW the answer, but an totally committed to discussion and action!

Hey, Geoffrey, where are you?

We are all so different in our psychological make-up, we all have so many things that influence our lives from childhood, siblings, no siblings, school, college, work, relationships, marriage, parenthood, divorce etc. I think all these things, together with our stressful, tiring lives, make us somehow less tolerant. Less willing to give our litlle bit of hard earned comfort.

The church has created a sort of comfort zone. A place where people go to be with like minded people, a safe place, insulated from the big wide world. Quite often the real meaning for being there takes a back seat, and it becomes quite often like a social event without the main Man.

In a situation like that the problem with letting the whole church decide is that they won’t decide, they are too comfortable. They need encouragement and strong leadership to get them out of the boat into the deep water. (I remember a blog you did earlier this year among swimming up stream).

Sally, bottom line for me is that we have a responsiblity to love God and to love our neighbours – The Great Commandments. Our neighbours mean those all around us, everybody we meet, both in church and out. That’s a hard one! I know I don’t manage it, even though I do try.

Bottom line: LESS comfort – MORE compassion